My co-workers tell me I'll change my mind, then come in every day complaining about their children and their simultaneously stultifying and stressful lives. I have hobbies and exercise and interesting recipes and friends and I get to do whatever I want most of the time. Tell me again how I'll change my mind?
If it's so bad, then why did he have a SECOND child?
"Fool me twice, shame on me."
Anyway, he's just saying that a lot of people have children out of total ignorance, and he's saying that people who don't have them but want them are just fooling themselves. Agreed and agreed.
If it's so bad, then why did he have a SECOND child? "Fool me twice, shame on me...."
Anyway, he's just saying that people have kids out of complete ignorance. He's saying that people who don't have kids and want kids are some of the most ignorant people in the world. Agreed and agreed.
He never mentions childfree people at all, only people who don't have kids and want them.
And you're totally right--the reason I don't want kids is because I know EXACTLY what I'm missing. When 90% of parents you know spend 90% of the time they talk about their kids saying how hard it is and how little they sleep and how they have no money and how their kids are disappointing, ungrateful brats etc...well, yeah, I know exactly what I'm missing out on, thanks.
And unlike, apparently, most parents, I remember exactly what it was like being a child--how much of a little shit I was, and how much bigger shits were all the other kids around me. School was like lord of the flies. Yeah, I really want to bring THAT back into my life. /sarcasm
Yeah, I think the whole idea that you "just don't know" what having kids is like unless you have them, is a crock.
I have 2 eyes, 2 ears and a brain and I can clearly observe what my friends and family who have kids go through on a daily basis. As I have said many times in this blog, there is nobody that can convince me that they have it better than me. I thank my lucky stars every day that I evaded that prison sentence!
It's a stupid idea to think that you must have kids to know what it is having them. I am surrounded by families, I can see what it looks like having kids, and I know I don't want them! I don't want to ruin my life!
Alex, I agree with you. I was a quiet child, but I disliked most of other kids, I found them stupid, noisy and childish! And adults can be bad too, and you're not a saint because you're a parent. My mother was quite a bully. There were bullies at school too, and adults did nothing. Children are powerless, they don't have the means to protect themselves, they entirely rely on adults. If adults don't want to help, it's just too bad for the kids, they just have to endure their miserable life. It seemed unfair to me, it seemed that children weren't real human beings, that they didn't deserve respect. I didn't like being a child, and I won't inflict that to another human being. And I don't want to live that again through my children.
In some online arguments about having kids, I recall making arguments along these lines:
"There are many things I choose not to do without having ever tried them out first. I never collected staps but I know I never want collect stamps. Do I have to have tried collecting stamps to know I don't want to collect them? I also never want to go skiing. Do I have to have tried skiing to know I do not want to ever ski? I know what a crying baby sounds like. I know what a stinky diaper smells like. Do I have to have had kids to know I want nothing to do with these and other negatives associated with having kids?"
You guys are all saying "Even though we don't have kids, we understand what it's like to have kids because we can observe other parents." It's like saying you know what olives taste like because, though you've never tasted an olive, you have observed other people eating them.
I must say, I'm glad not every human has children, because certainly there are far too many humans. But don't defend your choice with such shoddy logic as that. In fact, you really don't need to defend your choice so rabidly, in my opinion.
I find this blog pretty fascinating... I mean, carry on and do what you have to do, but you should know that your eager, noisy protestations come across as defensive and a bit desperate. If you were truly and completely comfortable with some life choice you'd made, would you need to talk about it at great length in a blog?
I acknowledge that I am probably writing this comment, which I assume won't be approved anyways, from a place of defensiveness as well. I'm a father and I freely admit that parenthood is very consuming and challenging. It's working for me though and I'm happy with it. Lucky me, I guess.
Thanks for not clogging up the planet with more humans. But be careful about your great pride in this matter
Hey Rafferty - thanks for visiting my blog and taking the time to comment. I am not sure how you landed here or why a childfree blog interests you, but I am always happy to entertain any parents who stumble my way.
This blog's audience is the childfree and those who are contemplating embracing the childfree lifestyle. It's not a lifestyle that gets a lot of support. In fact, it's usually derided - mostly by parents who are busy hyping up their lifestyle and telling us we're sad, confused misinformed souls who don't know our own minds.
So this blog serves as a place for us to support each other, vent our feelings and meet like-minded people who share a similar perspective on life.
If you can't relate, cool. There are plenty of blogs out there that celebrate the daddy life that won't ruffle your feathers so much.
I really admire parents who do a good job. Being a parent is the hardest thing there is is! Oprah said she has animals instead of children and that's me too - I've always had animals.
The sad truth is that many families should have had less children. Or NONE. Too many families can't really afford their procreative decisions. Then, they struggle to make ends meet, and live a decent life. One in 5 kids is being raised in poverty right now. That's terrible. I saw a Dateline episode some months ago - this family had 4 kids. The youngest was 3. The man had lost his job almost 5 years ago and they were on food stamps and her parents were renting small house for them as they had lost their home.I wondered why in the world they had a 4th child after the man lost his job? It costs a lot of $$ to raise a child these days.
The program showed the mom feeling defeated and ashamed that they had to go on food stamps and accept food from a community food bank.
I kept thinking this family would not be in this desperate a position if they had been childless or if they had even had had only ONE child.
It's sad that many buy into this idea that to be happy you need to have children. I like children and taught elem school for 27 years. They require time and money! I used to babysit for my nieces and nephews when they were young. Once I took care of a 2 yr old niece for a week. The only time I got any rest was when she was asleep-!! And she was a good child! But I was always feeding her, doing laundry & dishes, bathing her, changing her, reading to her, playing with her, taking her to the park etc.
It always seemed like being a mother would be too stressful a thing for me - many worries and anxious situations & contstant disappointments. And I do not for a minute think I am less of a woman or a human being for realizing that motherhood was not for me. One of my friends who has 3 kids once said to me raising her kids was 80% pain & 20% joy. But now that they are adults, it's reversed - it's 80% joy & 20% pain. We've seen friends go through horrible things with their kids.
Being childless does NOT mean being family-less. Or not be fulfilled and living the life you want.
The planet can only sustain so many people. There are so many ways for people to spread their love, and parenting is something that deserves far more devotion and effort than many people put into it. I admire good parents. I think if you are a good parent, it is the hardest job on earth.
I saw a lot of people who should not have been parents when I taught schooI. I think it's terribly sad when people regret having kids after they have them. Sad for the parents & for the children. This is why we need to get the word out that it's not only OK not to have kids in this kid-centric world, but that we ( child-free older ones like me) DON'T regret not having kids, and are in fact quite happy.
So many people are totally clueless about what's involved in raising children. To become a mother is perhaps the biggest decision a woman will ever make in her life, and once it’s made, it’s not one that can be reversed. And yet so little thought goes into what a TASK being a parent is.
Sigh. I'll never understand why parents read and comment on CF blogs and message boards. I have no desire to go read mothering.com, let alone post my (unwanted) opinions there.
You said it right--the reason the CF so often come off as "strident"** is because we spend our lives in a world that treats us like we're "less than" for not wanting kids. That tells us we don't know our own minds because we don't mindlessly follow the majority. That acts like our contributions to the world mean nothing compared to someone who's had kids. That our time is less important because we're not going home to kids. That says that, despite being married/having parents, siblings, friends, etc, we don't have a Real Family, because we don't have kids. Even if all individual parents don't do this, many do, and the unspoken culture-wide assumptions are still the air we all breathe, even if most people don't put voice to them.
Parents who complain about the childfree being "mean" or "hypersensitive" or whatever remind me of that old saw that if men could give birth, the human race would die out because they wouldn't be able to take the pain of labor. Same here--if the tables were turned and parents were treated as disdainfully as the childfree are, they'd be pretty damn "strident" about it too.
And I see nothing wrong with feeling pride for being childfree. In order to resist the cultural pressure to breed, you have to have a will of iron, know yourself extremely well, and have the courage to go completely against everything you've ever been taught about, well, a lot of things--religion, gender norms, assumptions about what makes a worthwhile life, etc. You have to forge your own path, and most of us had no childfree role models to tell us there was nothing wrong with us and show us how to make our own way. We had to figure it out ourselves (and maybe with some help from online CF buddies--another reason the CF like to talk about their CF-ness online). I think all of those achievements are worthy of a pat on the back (and I'll have to pat it myself, since the pronatalist world certainly won't).
**Yeah I know Rafferty didn't use that word, but plenty of his ilk have in the CF blogs and boards I've posted to over the years. You could practically make a bingo card out of it.
I don’t think Rafferty’s olive analogy really works. People without children can be pretty thoroughly exposed to children. If the analogy is olives, then childfree people have definitely tasted olives, we just have never bought our own jar of olives. We don’t know what it’s like to purchase olives, but believe me we have a damn good idea what they taste like.
I’d advise Rafferty to be careful of that logic about “not knowing if you don’t have them.” If that were true, then you should NEVER, EVER trust a babysitter who doesn’t have children. After all, that person must have no clue about what it’s like to take care of children. If you really believe that childless/childfree people are clueless, then don’t ever ask any to look after your kids.
Actually, by the same logic, anyone who has children does so out of total ignorance. If before you have children you can’t know what it’s like, that means that everyone who has their first child is being stupid. That’s not very complimentary to parents….
Obviously people without children have SOME clue about what it's like, or else no one could every make an educated decision to have children!
Unless Rafferty is saying that having children was a stupid decision.....
Oh I know what the olive tastes like! I help raise my nephew and niece from new born to toddlers and youth, and let me tell you that I do not want to smell poo and barf again!! I love my neice and nephew and I will continue to be a driving force in their lives to be stand up human beings on this planet, love and care for them but no way am I going to spread my seed and have one of my own I love my freedom of playing video games, travelling and waking up when I ever I feel like.
Hilarious! And this is why I have decided not to have kids: because I don't WANT to know what it's like to have them. :)
ReplyDeleteMy co-workers tell me I'll change my mind, then come in every day complaining about their children and their simultaneously stultifying and stressful lives. I have hobbies and exercise and interesting recipes and friends and I get to do whatever I want most of the time. Tell me again how I'll change my mind?
ReplyDeleteI totally recognize what you're saying Leah! :-)
DeleteIf it's so bad, then why did he have a SECOND child?
ReplyDelete"Fool me twice, shame on me."
Anyway, he's just saying that a lot of people have children out of total ignorance, and he's saying that people who don't have them but want them are just fooling themselves. Agreed and agreed.
If it's so bad, then why did he have a SECOND child? "Fool me twice, shame on me...."
ReplyDeleteAnyway, he's just saying that people have kids out of complete ignorance. He's saying that people who don't have kids and want kids are some of the most ignorant people in the world. Agreed and agreed.
He never mentions childfree people at all, only people who don't have kids and want them.
Thanks for sharing; I just couldn't stop laughing!
ReplyDeleteThis made me laugh so hard I cried.
ReplyDeleteAnd you're totally right--the reason I don't want kids is because I know EXACTLY what I'm missing. When 90% of parents you know spend 90% of the time they talk about their kids saying how hard it is and how little they sleep and how they have no money and how their kids are disappointing, ungrateful brats etc...well, yeah, I know exactly what I'm missing out on, thanks.
And unlike, apparently, most parents, I remember exactly what it was like being a child--how much of a little shit I was, and how much bigger shits were all the other kids around me. School was like lord of the flies. Yeah, I really want to bring THAT back into my life. /sarcasm
Yeah, I think the whole idea that you "just don't know" what having kids is like unless you have them, is a crock.
ReplyDeleteI have 2 eyes, 2 ears and a brain and I can clearly observe what my friends and family who have kids go through on a daily basis. As I have said many times in this blog, there is nobody that can convince me that they have it better than me. I thank my lucky stars every day that I evaded that prison sentence!
It's a stupid idea to think that you must have kids to know what it is having them. I am surrounded by families, I can see what it looks like having kids, and I know I don't want them! I don't want to ruin my life!
ReplyDeleteAlex, I agree with you. I was a quiet child, but I disliked most of other kids, I found them stupid, noisy and childish! And adults can be bad too, and you're not a saint because you're a parent. My mother was quite a bully. There were bullies at school too, and adults did nothing. Children are powerless, they don't have the means to protect themselves, they entirely rely on adults. If adults don't want to help, it's just too bad for the kids, they just have to endure their miserable life. It seemed unfair to me, it seemed that children weren't real human beings, that they didn't deserve respect. I didn't like being a child, and I won't inflict that to another human being. And I don't want to live that again through my children.
In some online arguments about having kids, I recall making arguments along these lines:
ReplyDelete"There are many things I choose not to do without having ever tried them out first. I never collected staps but I know I never want collect stamps. Do I have to have tried collecting stamps to know I don't want to collect them? I also never want to go skiing. Do I have to have tried skiing to know I do not want to ever ski? I know what a crying baby sounds like. I know what a stinky diaper smells like. Do I have to have had kids to know I want nothing to do with these and other negatives associated with having kids?"
You guys are all saying "Even though we don't have kids, we understand what it's like to have kids because we can observe other parents." It's like saying you know what olives taste like because, though you've never tasted an olive, you have observed other people eating them.
ReplyDeleteI must say, I'm glad not every human has children, because certainly there are far too many humans. But don't defend your choice with such shoddy logic as that. In fact, you really don't need to defend your choice so rabidly, in my opinion.
I find this blog pretty fascinating... I mean, carry on and do what you have to do, but you should know that your eager, noisy protestations come across as defensive and a bit desperate. If you were truly and completely comfortable with some life choice you'd made, would you need to talk about it at great length in a blog?
I acknowledge that I am probably writing this comment, which I assume won't be approved anyways, from a place of defensiveness as well. I'm a father and I freely admit that parenthood is very consuming and challenging. It's working for me though and I'm happy with it. Lucky me, I guess.
Thanks for not clogging up the planet with more humans. But be careful about your great pride in this matter
Hey Rafferty - thanks for visiting my blog and taking the time to comment. I am not sure how you landed here or why a childfree blog interests you, but I am always happy to entertain any parents who stumble my way.
ReplyDeleteThis blog's audience is the childfree and those who are contemplating embracing the childfree lifestyle. It's not a lifestyle that gets a lot of support. In fact, it's usually derided - mostly by parents who are busy hyping up their lifestyle and telling us we're sad, confused misinformed souls who don't know our own minds.
So this blog serves as a place for us to support each other, vent our feelings and meet like-minded people who share a similar perspective on life.
If you can't relate, cool. There are plenty of blogs out there that celebrate the daddy life that won't ruffle your feathers so much.
I really admire parents who do a good job. Being a parent is the hardest thing there is is!
ReplyDeleteOprah said she has animals instead of children and that's me too - I've always had animals.
The sad truth is that many families should have had less children. Or NONE. Too many families can't really afford their procreative decisions. Then, they struggle to make ends meet, and live a decent life. One in 5 kids is being raised in poverty right now. That's terrible. I saw a Dateline episode some months ago - this family had 4 kids. The youngest was 3. The man had lost his job almost 5 years ago and they were on food stamps and her parents were renting small house for them as they had lost their home.I wondered why in the world they had a 4th child after the man lost his job? It costs a lot of $$ to raise a child these days.
The program showed the mom feeling defeated and ashamed that they had to go on food stamps and accept food from a community food bank.
I kept thinking this family would not be in this desperate a position if they had been childless or if they had even had had only ONE child.
It's sad that many buy into this idea that to be happy you need to have children. I like children and taught elem school for 27 years. They require time and money!
I used to babysit for my nieces and nephews when they were young. Once I took care of a 2 yr old niece for a week. The only time I got any rest was when she was asleep-!! And she was a good child! But I was always feeding her, doing laundry & dishes, bathing her, changing her, reading to her, playing with her, taking her to the park etc.
It always seemed like being a mother would be too stressful a thing for me - many worries and anxious situations & contstant disappointments. And I do not for a minute think I am less of a woman or a human being for realizing that motherhood was not for me. One of my friends who has 3 kids once said to me raising her kids was 80% pain & 20% joy. But now that they are adults, it's reversed - it's 80% joy & 20% pain. We've seen friends go through horrible things with their kids.
Being childless does NOT mean being family-less. Or not be fulfilled and living the life you want.
The planet can only sustain so many people. There are so many ways for people to spread their love, and parenting is something that deserves far more devotion
and effort than many people put into it. I admire good parents. I think if you are a good parent, it is the hardest job on earth.
I saw a lot of people who should not have been parents when I taught schooI. I think it's terribly sad when people regret having kids after they have them. Sad for the parents & for the children. This is why we need to get the word out that it's not only OK not to have kids in this kid-centric world, but that we ( child-free older ones like me) DON'T regret not having kids, and are in fact quite happy.
So many people are totally clueless about what's involved in raising children.
To become a mother is perhaps the biggest decision a woman will ever make in her life, and once it’s made, it’s not one that can be reversed.
And yet so little thought goes into what a TASK being a parent is.
Sigh. I'll never understand why parents read and comment on CF blogs and message boards. I have no desire to go read mothering.com, let alone post my (unwanted) opinions there.
ReplyDeleteYou said it right--the reason the CF so often come off as "strident"** is because we spend our lives in a world that treats us like we're "less than" for not wanting kids. That tells us we don't know our own minds because we don't mindlessly follow the majority. That acts like our contributions to the world mean nothing compared to someone who's had kids. That our time is less important because we're not going home to kids. That says that, despite being married/having parents, siblings, friends, etc, we don't have a Real Family, because we don't have kids. Even if all individual parents don't do this, many do, and the unspoken culture-wide assumptions are still the air we all breathe, even if most people don't put voice to them.
Parents who complain about the childfree being "mean" or "hypersensitive" or whatever remind me of that old saw that if men could give birth, the human race would die out because they wouldn't be able to take the pain of labor. Same here--if the tables were turned and parents were treated as disdainfully as the childfree are, they'd be pretty damn "strident" about it too.
And I see nothing wrong with feeling pride for being childfree. In order to resist the cultural pressure to breed, you have to have a will of iron, know yourself extremely well, and have the courage to go completely against everything you've ever been taught about, well, a lot of things--religion, gender norms, assumptions about what makes a worthwhile life, etc. You have to forge your own path, and most of us had no childfree role models to tell us there was nothing wrong with us and show us how to make our own way. We had to figure it out ourselves (and maybe with some help from online CF buddies--another reason the CF like to talk about their CF-ness online). I think all of those achievements are worthy of a pat on the back (and I'll have to pat it myself, since the pronatalist world certainly won't).
**Yeah I know Rafferty didn't use that word, but plenty of his ilk have in the CF blogs and boards I've posted to over the years. You could practically make a bingo card out of it.
Of course we know...so we dont have them!
ReplyDeleteWe can see ( TV, close friends, family, etc.), we can experience (baby sit, keeping nephews, etc.).
Sometimes I feel like we know more than parents that choose to have them.
I don’t think Rafferty’s olive analogy really works. People without children can be pretty thoroughly exposed to children. If the analogy is olives, then childfree people have definitely tasted olives, we just have never bought our own jar of olives. We don’t know what it’s like to purchase olives, but believe me we have a damn good idea what they taste like.
ReplyDeleteI’d advise Rafferty to be careful of that logic about “not knowing if you don’t have them.” If that were true, then you should NEVER, EVER trust a babysitter who doesn’t have children. After all, that person must have no clue about what it’s like to take care of children. If you really believe that childless/childfree people are clueless, then don’t ever ask any to look after your kids.
Actually, by the same logic, anyone who has children does so out of total ignorance. If before you have children you can’t know what it’s like, that means that everyone who has their first child is being stupid. That’s not very complimentary to parents….
Obviously people without children have SOME clue about what it's like, or else no one could every make an educated decision to have children!
Unless Rafferty is saying that having children was a stupid decision.....
The comedian is just making fun of people who don't have children but want to have children.
ReplyDeleteHe's saying people who choose to have children are ignorant and clueless.
I have no problem with that.
Let's say he's totally right, and let's say Rafferty is totally right. Let's say people who don't have kids have NO idea what it's like. Fine by me.
I say it's better for ignorant people to NOT have children than to have children.
Oh I know what the olive tastes like! I help raise my nephew and niece from new born to toddlers and youth, and let me tell you that I do not want to smell poo and barf again!! I love my neice and nephew and I will continue to be a driving force in their lives to be stand up human beings on this planet, love and care for them but no way am I going to spread my seed and have one of my own I love my freedom of playing video games, travelling and waking up when I ever I feel like.
ReplyDelete